PenceBlog: <b>Transcript of Congressman Pence's interview on The Rush Limbaugh Show now available</b> - U.S. Congressman Mike Pence : 6th District Of Indiana

Paul W. Smith: This came to my attention from USA Today talking about how many illegal immigrants we have here. If you picture the Rose Bowl, something we like to think about here with University of Michigan football. Michigan State, for that matter, would like to get there too. Everybody has a college team that would like to get to the Rose Bowl. Well there are 93,000 fans there on New Year’s Day, they say. Picture 130 Rose Bowls filled to capacity, and you’re looking at the number of people you have to deal with in the immigration issue. Congressman Mike Pence, the Congressman from Indiana, has put together a compromise between the House and Senate and the White House on immigration reform. We want to hear what he has to say. Congressman, welcome to the Rush Limbaugh program.
Mike Pence: Well Paul, it’s a great honor to be on with you and a special honor to be on the Rush Limbaugh program. I’m a long-time listener, first-time caller.
Smith: Ha-ha. Well, that’s not too shabby! A first-time caller being the featured guest, not too bad, not too bad at all, Congressman.
Pence: That’s very humbling, thank you.
Smith: Tell us how your plan is different from all the other plans that we’ve heard. How is your plan not going to offer amnesty, which a lot of our listeners certainly are absolutely against? How is your plan not going to reward people who have broken the law?
Pence: Well as the headline in that USA Today editorial said, I believe amnesty isn’t the answer. I think we have to come up with legislation that puts border security first and exclusively, and under my proposal we would for the first two years do nothing but border security. At the end of which, Paul, the secretary of Homeland Security would have to verify that the border security measures included in the legislation had been substantially completed and, at that point and only at that point, could we initiate a no amnesty guest worker program that would be operated by private sector firms outside the United States of America. We would ask the 11-12 million illegal immigrants in America to leave the country and apply outside the United States for the legal right to be here, and that’s why I call it a no amnesty guest worker program.
Smith: And a program from what I can tell, the Pence Plan, if you will, embraces the House passed bill and rejects the amnesty that the Senate wanted in every way.
Pence: That’s exactly right. Basically my proposal, which is available at lots of places on the Internet in its entirety, embraces all that we passed out of the House of Representatives last December, with a couple of minor fixes that the House leadership has already agreed to do. We basically do all the tough border security, again exclusively for the first two years, Paul, and then also we embrace all of the very tough employer sanctions that the House of Representatives passed. That’s, to me, the essential piece here, get control of the border first, put tough employer sanctions on the books that will drive people into a process of deporting themselves to go to these privately run, what I call, Paul, Ellis Island centers, outside the United States of America.
Smith: Well, I want to learn a bit more about that. Representative Mike Pence with us, Republican from Indiana, Chairman of the Republican Study Committee, on this idea that you are going to ask that all 12 million of these illegal immigrants actually leave the country and then come back. How in the world can that be done?
Pence: Well, I think it can be done first and foremost if we use the private sector to do it. You know, I’m not endorsing any companies, but that great Troy, Michigan company called Kelly Services comes to mind.
Smith: Yeah, but that’s been making the rounds on the Internet, the Kelly Services program.
Pence: Well, sorry about that. Kelly Services, great company that puts hundreds of thousand of Americans into jobs every year. Monster.com is another great company.
Smith: It is a great, great company but…
Pence: But the idea here is that you go to people that literally place millions of Americans in jobs every year and say, "Look we want you to bid on the right to run these centers." Now the Department of Homeland Security would still oversee it. The Justice Department would still do all the background checks. The State Department would still issue the visas, but I think it’s a powerful idea. You know Paul, the free enterprise system kind of got us into this mess, and we should look to the free enterprise system to help us get out of it by administering and managing this private placement program outside the United States at these Ellis Island centers.
Smith: And I’m glad that you recognize the fact that we do have to hold the employers responsible. These 12 million people did not just come over here and then find jobs, they came over here for jobs that were looking for them, and we have to be aware of that. We also have to be aware that these are low paying jobs that I’m not so certain that the people who hire these people are going to hold that place for them while they go through a whole process of leaving the country and then petitioning to come back. And what about the, I don’t know how many, 2 or 3 million at least, children of these illegals that were born in American that are now American citizens.
Pence: Right, I think you make a great point on referencing whether or not people would hold jobs, and I want to make it very clear. We just simply are committed to saying we needed a guest worker after we’ve got border security done, Paul. We need to set up a new guest worker program, but we have to do it without amnesty and what we say to employers and to the people who are in this country illegally…
Smith: I want you to hold that thought because I want to hear what you say to employers and to people who hire those people who are here illegally and other people who are here illegally. I want you to be able to say that here with plenty of time and I want our callers to be apart of it.
Smith: Congressman Mike Pence is with us, a Republican from Indiana. He’s talking about his efforts to fashion a compromise between the House and the Senate and the White House on immigration reform. You were about to say something about the companies that have, in fact, hired these illegals, and also the fact that if we send these illegals back if these jobs will be held for them, or exactly how you think this is going to work out.
Pence: The onus really is on the individual in the United States who is here outside the color of the law. What the Pence Plan essentially contemplates, Paul, is that we would say to anyone in our country that, look, the only way that you can be in the United States of America, the only way you can gain access, is legally. And the only way you do that is by applying outside the United States of America for the legal right to be here. And so the onus is on that individual, if they want to get right with the law. We would create a new system so they could leave the country and apply at these privately ran Ellis Island Centers. If they choose not to do that after a certain period of time, as the House-passed bill includes, there are very tough sanctions for their employers, and I expect with these disincentives that these jobs will dry up for illegal immigrants in fairly short order.
Smith: There are those who would argue that the only reason that those jobs don’t pay enough to get Americans to take the jobs is because there are non-Americans who are willing to take the jobs, and if the jobs became available, they would have to pay more, and they will hire more Americans for the jobs. On the other side, the agriculture folks, the farming folks, and everybody who would use illegal immigrants often times say that they would be in trouble because they couldn’t afford to pay a better wage. It goes back and forth, but I do want to get to the callers at 1-800-282-2882 on the Rush Limaugh Show. But Congressman, what about the three million, or so, U.S.-born children born to these illegal immigrants who are not U.S. citizens. We can’t possibly ask them to abandon their children, and I'm not so sure that it’s easy for them to take them back. Remember how many of these people got here. Many of them got here by cover of night, going running through fields, paying smugglers, risking their lives to come to these United States.
Pence: Well, that’s exactly right and those American-born children are in a sense, the American Supreme Court in 1898, as you know, Paul. Those American-born children are Americans.
Smith: Right!
Pence: There would be no legal basis.
Smith: We don’t want to do this to fellow Americans
Pence: Right. And here’s the point, one of the appealing things about having private sector firms that can do the confirming employment, do a background check, get a health screening done. My proposal contemplates that from the time an applicant walks in an Ellis Island Center outside the United States, to when they could be cleared for a guest worker visa, would take, you know, about three to five days. So instead of asking an individual to leave behind a job and maybe dependents in the United States for a year, or two years, it could be for a matter of a week, or so, that they would have to leave the country to apply through this privately run system of Ellis Island Centers. It doesn’t, to me, seem to be too much to ask an individual whose first act in this country was a violation of the law. It’s not too much to ask them to leave this country and apply outside our country and to ask them to apply for the legal right to be here.
Smith: And then eventually, one would presume, applying for citizenship or permanent residency, would you, under your plan, the Pence Plan, increase the quota?
Pence: Well, what I would say... certainly we have a backlog in a couple of different areas of…
Smith: And only about 5,000 spots, I think for unskilled workers a year with…
Pence: Visas, and green cards, and the rest. Let me say emphatically, that there is no path to citizenship in the Pence Plan. And I see the Senate bill as an amnesty bill, first because they allow people to pay a fine and get right with the law, but second, they contemplate that if you become a guest worker in the Senate bill, you’re on an automatic path to citizenship. My view is that once people leave the country and apply for the legal right to be here, that they ought to have, just like anybody else, have the opportunity to apply for permanent status or citizenship. But we shouldn’t make that automatic, Paul.
Smith: Alright
Pence: I think there’s real evidence that an awful lot of people, nearly half of the population that live and work near our border states do just want to be guests here, and if we gave them a legitimate way to come and go, to contribute to the economy, to earn a living, but to go back home, they would do just that. So, no automatic path to citizenship, but no barrier to people who want to get right with the law by applying outside the country to apply just like anybody else.
Smith: Good, let’s see what or fellow students of the Limbaugh Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies have on their minds. 1-800-282-2882, 1-800-282-2882, the Rush Limbaugh program with Congressman Mike Pence. I’m Paul W. Smith. And it is Jim’s turn, from Lincoln, Nebraska. Jim, welcome to the Rush Limbaugh program.
Caller: And thank you very much. I’ve got two things: first, is how are you proposing to close the borders? I understand that 30% of the people who are incarcerated in the United States are illegal aliens. What are we going to do with them? But I don’t want to send them back, unless our borders are secure.
Pence: Let me respond that under my proposal we embrace all of the security measures that were passed by the House of Representatives in December in the Border Protection, Anti-Terrorism Immigration Control Act. That’s port of entry inspectors, ending the policy of catch and release, using American technology for unmanned aerial control vehicles, and of course, 700 miles of a security fence along our southern border. What we added in though, Jim, is we said, look, under my proposal, Congress would say to the administration, you would have to spend two years implementing, specifically, all the measures of the border security plan, and then at the end of those two years, you have to certify to Congress that these border security measures have been substantially completed, as Congress designated, before the first Ellis Island Center outside the United States is opened, before the first no-amnesty guest worker visa is issued. So that is the criteria. You could look at our proposal and know that all the border protection and security measures are met in our bill.
Smith: That’s a very important point. It’s point number one in your plan, the Pence Plan. Border security, getting that fixed. And let’s face it, the problem in 1986, part of it is that Congress didn’t create a fund and didn’t come up with a viable enforcement system, and that’s what we need first before we do anything else.
Pence: Well, there’s no question, Paul. 1986, with granting amnesty to three million illegal immigrants, is kind of what got us here today. But, I think it was about two weeks ago, I spent nearly an hour in the Oval Office with the President and Vice-President Cheney, and the point that I made to them was that, from my perspective, as a conservative in the Congress of the United States, a Hoosier serving in Washington, D.C., is that we have to put border security first and that we have to certify to the American people that we have completed the border security measures before the very first no-amnesty guest worker visas can be issued. And I also made the point that, in my thinking, if you can get right with the law, if you’re an illegal immigrant, and you can get right with the law without having to leave the United States, that’s amnesty. But, if you leave the country and apply outside of the United States, apply at one of these Ellis Island Centers for the legal right to work in our country for a two year period of time, from my perspective, that doesn’t include amnesty. And I made both of the points to the President and Vice-President in the Oval Office.
Smith: Let’s check in quickly with Bob in Roswell, Georgia. Bob, you’re on the Rush Limbaugh program, I’m Paul W. Smith, and you’re with Congressman Mike Pence. Bob, go ahead.
Caller: Hello. Thanks for taking my call. I was one of the lucky ones who got through. But let me tell you what twenty million Rush Limbaugh listeners are screaming at their radios right now. They’re screaming it’s not going to happen! Those 11 million aren’t going to leave this country and if we can’t deport them now and if we cant find them and can’t round them up now, what are we going to do two years from now when we suddenly decide they didn’t go?
Smith: Well I’m on the edge of my seat for the answer, and we’re going to get it up next from Congressman Mike Pence, right here on the Rush Limbaugh program. I’m Paul W. Smith.
Smith: Congressman Mike Pence is here and on the hot seat right now, and Bob is calling from Roswell, Georgia saying he’s representing about 40 million Rush Limbaugh listeners who are screaming at their radios, "Congressman, wait a minute, wait a minute. It isn’t going to happen. Twelve million illegals are not all of the sudden going to become law abiding citizens and decide to follow the letter of the law and leave to come back. We’re not going to get them." What then?
Pence: Well let me say, with great respect to Bob, I think it is going to happen. I think if we spend the first two years doing exclusively border security and setting up private placement offices we’ll call Ellis Island centers run by the private sector, and we educate people about the opportunity to go home and apply outside the country for the legal right to be here, and we also educate employers about the huge sanctions and fines that they will be facing if they have anyone in their employment after a certain period of time that doesn’t hold one of these no-amnesty guest worker visas, I think you’ve got a chemistry there. And over time you would see people make appointments to go home, take a week or so to go through the process of a background check, a health screening and have their employment confirmed. And can I say one other thing about that too Paul? I really do believe there are certainly some bad apples in every ethnic group in the country, but let me say this: I really do believe that the overwhelming majority of the people that we’re talking about described as illegal immigrants, other than their violation of our immigration laws, are good, decent, hard-working, God-fearing people who would jump at the chance to get right with the law. They just look at a failed bureaucracy today. They look at the American economy with the opportunities you described so eloquently earlier, and they don’t see a coherent way to be a part of it even now to get right with the law. I think as we close the border first, we genuinely have a moral obligation to create a new system where people without amnesty could return home and apply for the legal right to be here. I believe that with all my heart, as a grandson of one of those unskilled laborers who stepped on the real Ellis Island back in 1923. I believe with all my heart that millions of people would jump at the chance to take a trip home to get right with the law.
Smith: 1-800-282-2882. 1-800-282-2882. And its Susie’s turn from Springfield, Missouri, on the Rush Limbaugh program. Paul W. Smith, along with Congressman Mike Pence, Susie.
Caller: Yes, thank you for taking my call. And I’m glad to be able to ask you a couple of questions. The first one is about the Ellis Island centers. I know that the American taxpayers are paying billions of dollars a year to support these illegal aliens, and we don’t even want them here, suspense is taking over our country.
Smith: Wait, wait, wait. Susie, somebody does want them here, and we have to recognize that fact. Somebody is putting them to work. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just telling you that the reality is there are 12 million jobs that they’re taking.
Caller: Ok, but they’re living on my tax money, and we could be using that for border patrol or for our troops or for other things for the benefit of American citizens. That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I believe. Ok. I’d like to know about Ellis Island. These Ellis areas. What is going to be, how that’s going to be, and who’s going to be supporting them during this time? And also…
Smith: Let me sum it up. The Pence Plan calls for it to be handled by the private sector, not a failed government bureaucracy, and I guess that is a good question, Suzy, that you’re asking there, among others. How’s this going to get funded? Who’s going to pay for this? How do those private sector companies, who should only be doing this to make money, make money?
Caller: And I want to ask him, to the ones who are made legal here in the United States, we have a system where we allow all the family members to come over the border to and become citizens if they have a relative who is a citizen a legal citizen here. Are we going to stop that law so that we aren’t just flooded with Mexicans and become a Mexican country?
Smith: Well come on now. Let’s let the Congressman answer this because we’ve got a lot of questions and not a lot of time.
Pence: Yup. Susie raises a great question about the cost of this. Its one of the really great ideas behind this proposal which has its origins in a Coloradoan by the name of Helen Krieble, who first came up with it Paul, and that is that the employees or the prospective employees, instead of paying a $1500 fine as the Senate bill contemplates to the federal government for amnesty, they would pay a fee to these private placement firms to confirm or to place them in a job. To process a background check and to engage in a health screening and otherwise administer the monitoring of their employment. Bottom line is the administration of this system is born by the employee or even the employer, it’s not born by the American taxpayer. I also picked up a thought there that Susie had that I think is a profound point and that is what sometimes gets called the external or welfare cost associated with illegal immigration. They are enormous. One part of the proposal that is included in this no-amnesty guest worker idea is that the people who possess these cards would in effect be barred from participating in public welfare programs Paul. They would not be able to come here and essentially live off of the welfare state. And, in fact there would also be, and this is an idea that emerged in a good bill in the Senate, I would like to see us take a portion of their payroll taxes to offset the emergency room costs at hospitals in the…I think there are 23 counties directly on the border and major cities that have huge emergency costs related to this. We need to focus the energy in those 12 million working people in supporting them and supporting the public systems that support them and otherwise make sure through this no-amnesty guest worker program that they don’t become welfare dependent and live off of a country of which they are not legally a part.
Smith: Final comments from Congressman Mike Pence. It’s the Pence Plan, no amnesty immigration reform here on the Rush Limbaugh program. The Pence Plan includes all the tough border security and employer sanctions passed by the House of Representatives. Does not grant a path to citizenship of any kind. Does not include any form of amnesty. Requires that illegal immigrants leave the country. Does not favor illegal immigrants over people who have not broken our immigration laws. And you feel it will work because you it relies on the private sector not a failed government bureaucracy. Did I sum it up?
Pence: You summed it up brilliantly Paul. No surprise there. What I could add is that the likes of Newt Gingrich, Gary Bauer, Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Foundation and even Chuck Colson have endorsed our proposal. I really believe it is a proposal that conservatives ought to take a hard look at. We need to get control of our border. We need to put border security first. But I think we also need to set up a new guest worker program without amnesty by harnessing the power of the private sector to manage a new program outside the United States. Tough employer sanctions, tough border security with a no-amnesty guest worker program in the middle, I believe is an idea whose time has come.
Smith: Congressman, a pleasure meeting you and talking with you. Good luck to you.
Pence: Honor to be with you, Paul.
Smith: Congressman Mike Pence here on the Rush Limbaugh program.

posted by Pence Press Office # 6:10 AM